the beginning of the end

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the beginning of the end

Post  Sylvias on Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:34 pm

This is the first step guys...expect there to be A LOT more legislation thrown at us now... knowing that they can get away with it..... wont be long before we see retics... boas... and then ball pythons added to that list.... snakes in general will be attacked soon and then they will move onto other reptiles and eventually other animals... this is their agenda.
do not be fooled into thinking this bill is about environmental impact or "dangerous" pets. It's not. It's about a loud group of people forcing their way onto others....

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/16/2592593/us-set-to-approve-python-ban.html
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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  gatsu7 on Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:14 am

Is it back down to just Burmese and African rocks? The last I checked, they were still trying to include boas, retics, and anacondas as well.
Honestly, I'm okay with no imports. We have enough captive breeders of these to eliminate the need for imports. The ban on crossing state lines with them, however, is ridiculous, and is a state matter, not a federal one.

If they really have narrowed it down to just 2 species again, at least the impact on our hobby won't be as bad as it would have been with all 9 species.

When it is time to vote later this year, don't forget who supported us on this issue.
(Hint: It wasn't the democrats)
Both parties have gone down the drain, but at least the gop hasn't thrown herpers under the bus... yet.
Vote incumbents out, (regardless of party) and choose their replacements wisely. This the best method we have for preventing more bad legislation.


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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  gatsu7 on Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:58 am

It is official. Burms, Afrocks, and yellow anacondas have been banned.

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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  tandy on Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:17 am

gatsu7 wrote:It is official. Burms, Afrocks, and yellow anacondas have been banned.




Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Tandy
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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  gatsu7 on Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:27 am

I would also like to add that the Secretary of the Interior changes when the president changes, so if you want Salazar gone, vote a new president in this year. Anyone will do. Just get rid of the current idiots.

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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  Sylvias on Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:04 pm

Yeah I have discovered I am a republican because of all this.... I really don't even care about the other "hot topics" when the one that is the absolute most important thing in my life is on the line.....
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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  Sylvias on Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:55 am

http://www.change.org/petitions/the-ak-state-senate-over-rule-the-python-ban-from-1-17-12#
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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  tandy on Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:44 pm

gatsu7 wrote:I would also like to add that the Secretary of the Interior changes when the president changes, so if you want Salazar gone, vote a new president in this year. Anyone will do. Just get rid of the current idiots.

Be careful. We don't want to simply exchange them for new idiots. I am a long-time Republican mainly because an Independent voter status is useless. I am an NRA member, not religious, and other things that contrast with a staunch GOP member, but I agree with them on many aspects like job creation, free business enterprise, only helping those who help themselves, and protecting my individual rights that include gun ownership, freedom of speech, and the right to be a responsible large snake owner. I'm afraid that we are going to end up with a presidential candidate that is simply the lesser of the evils and not the best person for the job because people who would be a great president can't afford the campaign or are smart enough to know they don't want that job. I agree whole-heartedly that Obama is one of the most wreckless, unqualified presidents in history and I hope we get in right in 2012. Lots of people need to go. I keep watching the debates hoping to get an inkling for one candidate, but it hasn't hit me yet. I did sign the petition.

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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  gatsu7 on Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:30 pm

tandy wrote:
gatsu7 wrote:I would also like to add that the Secretary of the Interior changes when the president changes, so if you want Salazar gone, vote a new president in this year. Anyone will do. Just get rid of the current idiots.

Be careful. We don't want to simply exchange them for new idiots. I am a long-time Republican mainly because an Independent voter status is useless. I am an NRA member, not religious, and other things that contrast with a staunch GOP member, but I agree with them on many aspects like job creation, free business enterprise, only helping those who help themselves, and protecting my individual rights that include gun ownership, freedom of speech, and the right to be a responsible large snake owner. I'm afraid that we are going to end up with a presidential candidate that is simply the lesser of the evils and not the best person for the job because people who would be a great president can't afford the campaign or are smart enough to know they don't want that job. I agree whole-heartedly that Obama is one of the most wreckless, unqualified presidents in history and I hope we get in right in 2012. Lots of people need to go. I keep watching the debates hoping to get an inkling for one candidate, but it hasn't hit me yet. I did sign the petition.

Tandy

I'm with you. I don't have a favorite of the GOP candidates, and I probably won't, but I would take any of them over the current president (just barely on a couple of them). Congress is the main problem though. There isn't much we can do about the idiots because they seem to be the only people who run for public office in this country. Honestly, I don't really consider myself a "republican" anymore. I only vote for them because they are supposed to stand for more things I believe in than the democrats. I would vote libertarian, if it was a viable option. I am religious, but I don't believe that social issues belong in the federal government. I wish both parties would just go away and candidates would just run on their personal beliefs instead of what the party forces on them. If that happened, maybe we would get some good people in Washington that actually want to work instead of argue with "the other side".

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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  tandy on Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:47 pm

Well said Michael and I would love to do away with the political parties too. Tandy
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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  Snakeman on Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:21 am

Based on an article I read this morning, they're already wanting to get the rest of

the "big constrictors" included in the ban.

• Indian python
• Reticulated python
• Boa constrictor
• Green anaconda
• Beni anaconda
• DeSchauensee’s anaconda

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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  Barry on Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:40 am

There is a saying that the cure may be worse than the ailment. Honestly, I may just write in Huckabee!
At least Newt (the former House Speaker, not the amphibian) has a reputation for enjoying various animals, but I doubt
he will make it until Fall.
Anyway, the (sorta hot) new CNN lady was talking about the ban a couple of evenings ago and stated that the efforts
to control feral pythons is costing roughly $100 million a year.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/17/us/florida-python-ban/index.html?iref=allsearch
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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  Zak on Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:11 pm

I'm waiting to see them put retics up on the "list". it wouldnt surprise me to see ball pythons on there either. I find it asinine that they didnt include green anacondas too. This is all I'm going to post on this subject because everything I've got to say will include tons of swear words.
Sylvias wrote:This is the first step guys...expect there to be A LOT more legislation thrown at us now... knowing that they can get away with it..... wont be long before we see retics... boas... and then ball pythons added to that list.... snakes in general will be attacked soon and then they will move onto other reptiles and eventually other animals... this is their agenda.
do not be fooled into thinking this bill is about environmental impact or "dangerous" pets. It's not. It's about a loud group of people forcing their way onto others....

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/16/2592593/us-set-to-approve-python-ban.html

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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  J&C Johnson on Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:52 pm

It is a given that ALL other large constrictors will be added to the list...its a matter of weeks! Out of my bros...I feel for you Zak! Keep the faith...maybe it will be overturned!
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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  Spider Woman on Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:23 pm

Zak, won't you still be able to sell in Oklahoma?

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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  tandy on Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:14 am

ZakO wrote:I'm waiting to see them put retics up on the "list". it wouldnt surprise me to see ball pythons on there either. I find it asinine that they didnt include green anacondas too. This is all I'm going to post on this subject because everything I've got to say will include tons of swear words.
Sylvias wrote:This is the first step guys...expect there to be A LOT more legislation thrown at us now... knowing that they can get away with it..... wont be long before we see retics... boas... and then ball pythons added to that list.... snakes in general will be attacked soon and then they will move onto other reptiles and eventually other animals... this is their agenda.
do not be fooled into thinking this bill is about environmental impact or "dangerous" pets. It's not. It's about a loud group of people forcing their way onto others....

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/16/2592593/us-set-to-approve-python-ban.html

That's it in a nutshell. And like many other things, they will pry my boa constrictor out of my cold dead fingers. Laughing Tandy
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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  Zak on Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:58 pm

yes we will still be able to sell in Oklahoma. So far I've made the decision not to jump ship just yet. I am nervous about the whole situation, but when its all said and done, I will always have retics no matter what. I just wont breed them, which is a shame. Like Jeff said I'm keeping my faith and keeping my fingers crossed that the retics will not be placed on the list.

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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  Sylvias on Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:09 pm

Gotta do more than keep faith.... we are going to end up in a lawsuit over this soon if we can get the money.... USARK has already said they want to pursue legal action...but that's expensive...
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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  tandy on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:20 pm

Sylvias wrote:Gotta do more than keep faith.... we are going to end up in a lawsuit over this soon if we can get the money.... USARK has already said they want to pursue legal action...but that's expensive...


Is there anything else we can be doing to help the efforts?

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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  Sylvias on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:22 pm

right now it appears that donations to USARK are the best thing to do, the more money we raise for lawyers and the cost of pushing such a law suit the better, that is almost certainly what it is going to come down to
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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  gatsu7 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:46 pm

USARK should contact some big celebrities who keep snakes. I'm sure there are quite a few. They would have the money and influence to get this thing going.

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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  Sylvias on Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:39 pm

that is an excellent idea, i posted about it on facebook and got lots of hopeful feed back. Slash of course used to have a huge retic/burm etc collection, Kerry King from slayer, Alice Cooper, but even Betty White has done a lot of with snakes and would definitely be a strong point of influence if we could get her on our side....
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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  J&C Johnson on Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:07 pm

Seriously....if USARK was going to do something...they should have already done it!! How much more money do they need to not allow legislature to pass that a 12 year old lawyer could have stopped!! This law accomplished nothing! There is ABSOLUTELY no need for the import of said species. Me selling a Burm to a customer in Arkansas does NOTHING to correct the problem in the Everglades. This is something that a 12 year old should have been able to explain to our government. USARK was unable to get a simple point across. My feelings are they have raised A LOT OF MONEY to accomplish nothing. I'm sorry, the law that has been passed accomplished nothing and is border line pointless! I understand that my opinions are not taken well on this forum. This is only my opinion. I think that many would agree, but aren't prepared to agree!
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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  Sylvias on Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:40 am

The problem is that USARK DID make all the right points that SHOULD have stopped it...but our government doesn't run on logic....it runs on cash... and the enemy has more of that and has been padding the pockets of the politicians from the start. If this was a fair fight, we would have won.
But money runs the world and they have more...so our next step is a law suite.... which takes even more money, especially on this scale, looking at $150k just to get started! Pretty sure USARK doesn't just have that kinda cash laying around like the HSUS does....
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Re: the beginning of the end

Post  gatsu7 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:21 am

J&C Johnson wrote:Seriously....if USARK was going to do something...they should have already done it!! How much more money do they need to not allow legislature to pass that a 12 year old lawyer could have stopped!! This law accomplished nothing! There is ABSOLUTELY no need for the import of said species. Me selling a Burm to a customer in Arkansas does NOTHING to correct the problem in the Everglades. This is something that a 12 year old should have been able to explain to our government. USARK was unable to get a simple point across. My feelings are they have raised A LOT OF MONEY to accomplish nothing. I'm sorry, the law that has been passed accomplished nothing and is border line pointless! I understand that my opinions are not taken well on this forum. This is only my opinion. I think that many would agree, but aren't prepared to agree!

I completely see where you are coming from. However, the law passed because the people who wanted it to pass refused to listen to logic and reason, not because USARK didn't try their best to stop it. I watched every congressional hearing and followed every news release for the past few years on this, and USARK was constantly trying to hammer some common sense into these idiots. They just don't listen.
Actually, if this law had gone through congress, as it should have, it would have failed because of USARK's efforts. The problem is that the DOI and USFWS found a sneaky loophole to get their law passed without it ever having to go through due process. There is a limit on the economic impact these rules can have (I think it is $25 million but don't quote me on that), to bypass Congress and become effective without approval from them. By only including these 4 species, Mr. Salazar and his flunkies were able to push this rule through without anyone else having to approve it because the rule now falls below the designated economic impact threshold. Now, they are free to add each of the other species to the list with their own rules, as long as the individual species won't have an economic impact greater than the threshold. This is the foothold HSUS needed, and they won't stop until all reptiles are outlawed, then amphibians, then fish, then birds, then mammals.
I wasn't a fan of our president before this, but this sealed the deal. If these are the kind of dishonest crooks that he appointed to the DOI and USFWS, imagine how many other appointed (never voted on by the people) politicians he has placed throughout our government. As if I didn't have enough other reasons to vote him out this year, this is the nail in the coffin. If he goes, so do all of his appointed servants, including that idiot Ken Salazar.
Well, I got a little off topic. Anyway, please don't blame USARK for this. They chose to fight fairly and within the law, but the enemy did not. I guess cheaters do prosper every now and then.

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